University of Chicago Lab School- Ms. Jacobs' Page

Sunday, February 04, 2007

Two Views on Two Wars

In class we read about Joseph Plumb Martin's experiences fighting in the Revolutionary War in A Young Patriot. We also read about Tim O'Brien's experiences fighting in the Vietnam War from his book The Things They Carried.

How are what Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'Brien saying about war similar? How are their comments and ideas different? Are there any other comments you want to make about either reading?

Feel free to look at the comments from your classmates and respond to their posts as well as the questions above.

Be sure to put your first name and last initial at the end of your post.

posted by Charlotte Jacobs at 7:18 AM

46 Comments:

  • I think that the first reading was a more violent version of the second. I also think that the first story was more of a story and the second one was more of a memory.

    .

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:15 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'Brien both have very different ideas about war. Joseph never talked about feeling guilty after killing another man. However, Tim O'Brien says that he relives killing the Vietnamese soldier almost every day. Both of the men do, however, have very supportive friends to go into war with and they both have had some bad experiences during war.

    Nicholas P.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:23 PM  

  • I think that in Tim O'Brien's case he feels regret in the killing and is reflecting on that every day which in my opinion is pretty un-heathy. As in Joseph Plumb Martin's case he shows how wonderful it was to fight in the war even with the ups and downs he is proud of it. I think the difference is the opinion of how the war changed thier lives.

    Maddy C.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:41 PM  

  • I think that Joseph really doesn't care if he kills somebody, and he thinks that he is fighting for a good cause. Tim feels the exact opposite. However, they were both probably scarred after the war, and they both seem to have supporting friends.
    Grant Y.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:12 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'Brien both were in a war, but thier stories are very different. Joseph tells more about the time between the fighting, when they are suffering because of starvation and freezing cold.
    On the other hand, Tim tellls about the killing of the other people, and Joseph does not tell about killing.

    Izy Ruyter-Harcourt

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:39 PM  

  • i think joseph's story was a primary source and the second 1 with Tim's Story is also primary. they both describe their life as a soldier and both have details about it as well. its different because even though its a war their wars were a hundred year or more apart. No more COMMENTS...

    Kim...@^.^@

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:44 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:45 PM  

  • I think that the main difference between Jsephs account of war and Tim O'Briens account of war was that Joseph felt that he was fighting for a good cause and sighned up to fight voluntarily but Tim probably though that in wasn't a good cause and was most likely drafted. Becasue Joseph though it was a good cause, the deaths of opposing soldiers didn't haunt him so much. He felt taht it had to happen and their deaths were necesary. But Tim disliked the war so the deaths seemed unnecesary and therfore haunted him.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:59 PM  

  • That last one was me, i just forgot to put my name on
    -mara

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:59 PM  

  • I think that Joseph and Tim both feel badly about the war but, Tim has extremely bad and guilty feelings about killing someone. Joseph never talks about any post killing guilt or thought on why. Both men have thought about life after the war and also when it is done.
    Simone Nelsen

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:01 PM  

  • I think that Tim O'Brien and Joseph Plumb Martin have opposite feelings toward war. Tim O'Brien tells us how he felt so bad for killing that man and how he regrets it, but on the other hand, Joseph never mentions feeling bad for the enemy. Joseph finds war more of an adventure than Tim does.
    ~Sarah H.
    8/9

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:15 PM  

  • think that both experiences were very different. Joseph's experience was different because of the brutal conditions of weather, disease, lack of food and not really having any clothing. In war your trying to stay alive (of course) but Joseph was trying with all his strength and fighting in battles. As apposed to O'Brien was just fighting and on instinct threw a granade. Josephs experience was slower and more painful. O'Brien was fast and over with.

    Tony G

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:22 PM  

  • Tim's experience was different than Joseph's in that Tim felt remorse for the man he killed. Joseph was more intent on surviving day-to-day and not starving or freezing. Tim has enough food and clothing, so he has the luxury of being able to feel the dead man's pain. Joseph may have felt badly, but since he had to keep warm, it didn't seem to haunt him as much has Tim. Joseph's friends seemed to be supporting him better then Tim's, who almost made the situation worse, but both had people who were there to help them get through it.

    Charlie R.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:32 PM  

  • I think that Joseph was a lot more immature than Tim. This, of course, could have been because of the age difference. Joseph was always shocked by the way they did things in the army. Tim seems to understand what is going on a little bit better than Joseph. But they did have a few things in common. They both were overwhelmed by the disease, famine, and the struggles that the soldiers had to go through to survive.
    Lindsay L.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:41 PM  

  • I think Joseph Plumb Martin doesn't feel guilty at all when he kills people. He feels like he's serving his country, and he is proud to kill. Tim O'Brien has more of a heart, I think he's a sweeter person towards killing people. Tim feels very guilty when he kills a person, as apposed to Joseph, who not necessarily likes killing, but it doesn't hurt him, he doesn't care when he does kill. Joseph thinks of killing as the enemy, and just another person, and Tim takes it personally, like he's the bad person.

    Kayla St. Clair

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:04 PM  

  • Well they both were fighting for their country but in Tim O'Briens story he is regretful for what he had done even though it was his duty. Where as Joseph wasn't regretful at all.



    Adam G. (pookie)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:06 PM  

  • One way that both Joseph Plumb Martin's and Tim O'Brien's story were alike were that they both talked about feelings during the wars that they were in. Though one talked about the conditions and the other talked about what it felt like when they killed a person, they both expressed their feelings in some way. Both stories were different though. One was about the type of conditions that one had to go through the Rev. war. The other was about what it felt like to kill a person, and how bad someone could feel.


    Saisha N.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:26 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'Brien have both fought in a war before. Joseph Plumb Martin doesn't really care about who he is killing and doesn't think about it either. On the other hand, Tim O'Brien cares about killing people.Joseph signed up for the war so he knew what he was in for, but Tim was probably drafted so he was scared. Also I think that when he was describing the dead man he was describing himself in a way.

    Jennifer P.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:27 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin had a view on the whole part of the war that he fought in, but Tim O'Brien was feeling guilty about killing this a man. Joseph didn't talk about killing anyone and if he did, he didnt make a big deal and make himself feel guilty. Tim O'Brien was making himself feel even more guilty by making up what he thought might have been the man's life. They both had bad experiences, but Joseph talked more about his hunger and himself, and Tim O'Brien talked more about the man he killed.
    Kelsea H.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:36 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:36 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'Brien both have very different ideas about war. Joseph never said that he felt guilty about killing anybody in the war. But Tim says that he feels so guilty about killing that one man tha the relives it every day. Both of the man had friends who helped them through the wars.

    Katherine G.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:38 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:38 PM  

  • I think that they were similar in the sense, that these situations were about the war. But yet both these men had different oppinions because Joseph never thought about the people dying. Whereas,Tim thinks about the man he killed and lives with the guilt since after. These stories were very real, gruesome and alike in the ways like, they had people supporting them the whole way.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:48 PM  

  • I think that the way Josaph Plump Marin refers to the war is he wanted to go and fight he wanted to beat the british, so he doesnt feel the sadness that Tim O'Brian fells beacuse Tim was drafted and he didnt really want to go to war and Joseph went along with the fact that if he wanted his country/colonies to be free he basically had to kill some people.
    Erin M.(Mooses rule!!!)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:49 PM  

  • Sorry. The one right before this that was posted at 4:48 was Rebecca Alexanders from period 8/9

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:50 PM  

  • They were both fighting in a war but Tim was drafted and went against his will on the other hand Joseph went because he wanted to. Also, when Joseph killed someone there was no guilt (that we heard of) but when Tim killed someone, there was plenty of guilt felt

    Andrew X!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:08 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'Brien were both war veterens, however Tim O'Brien killed a man with a gernade and feels guilty/thinks about it everyday. Joseph Plumb Martin killed several people and never felt guilty. Joseph just felt he was serving his country.

    ŠêÅÑ K.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:38 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'brien's account of the two wars are similiar and different. In both of them, they both have friends that support them. Unlike O'brien, Joseph never even mentions how the enemy felt. O'brien focuses more on the enemy. In Joseph's account, he is basicly telling the hardship of the American soldiers and the story of what happened in the war.

    -Elizabeth G.
    period 8-9

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:40 PM  

  • Some similarities in what Joseph Plumb Martin and Tim O'Brien were saying about war had to do with how scared and new they were with war. In A Young Patriot, Joseph was very new to the idea of war and in the readings by Tim O'Brien I feel like he was very new and scared of war too. Tim O'Brien in the second reading was still very sad about murdering the other soldier, while Joseph had grown up and had a family. Joseph always seemed very unsure and was a big follower while Tim was very cautious at all times.

    Ceci E. (3/4)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:07 PM  

  • Joseph and Tim have very different accounts on their war experiences. Joseph would write about how he was starving, freezing and sick, while Tim would write about how he felt about killing a man. Maybe Joseph would have felt the same way as Tim if he hadn't had to have the burden of just trying to stay alive. Tim on the other hand, would probably have felt the same as Joseph, had he not had warmth, food, and medicine easily acquirable.
    ~Elizabeth M.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:14 PM  

  • Joseph Plumb Martin never thought twice after he killed a man. But Tim O'Brian felt guilty after just one man. So, overall, they kind of have different ideas.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:07 AM  

  • Tim O'brian saw war as more of a bloody and only killing event when joseph said that you would get sick and it would be uncomfortable for everyone. they had different opinions because they were in a lot different situations and a different time period. Tim O'brian talked about how horrible it was to kill a person and Joseph never talked about killing a person.

    Philip LB

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:20 AM  

  • Chris Thomas

    Tim o'Brien has a veiw of sadness when he kills some one while Joseph Plimb Martin thinks its not such a big deal

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:21 AM  

  • Joseph Martin and Tim O'Brien had different war experiences. Tim fought in a war that he found unnessecary and Joseph fought in the war that birthed our country. Joseph felt little regretg about killing and Tim went into a whole story-telling thing about the guy he killed.

    Jacob Chereskin

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:22 AM  

  • In "The Man I Killed" by Tim O'Brien, he feels awful about killing the Vietnamese man, while in "A Young Patriot," Joseph Plumb Martin doesn't seem to care. I think this is because in "The Man I Killed," Tim O'Brien doesn't hate the man he kills, but Joseph and the Continental Army hate the British. Also, in Tim O'Brien's writing, the man he kills never did anything to him while in "A Young Patriot," the British have taxed the Americans and had the Boston Massacre. Some similarities in their stories are that they are both fighting for America and it seems like they both have friends in the army with them.
    -Ary H.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:23 AM  

  • Martin never seems to think of the people he kills, only that war is service for your country. O'Brien is the opposite. All he can ever think about is the man he killed, never seeming to think about the fact that it was his duty to serve in the war and kill the enemy.

    Alice F.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:25 AM  

  • I think Joseph and Tim O'Brian both have very different views on war. Joseph doesn't seem to feel anything after killng another man but secretly feels guilty while Tim O'Brian openly feels sorry for the Vietamese man he killed.

    The Chosen One

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:35 AM  

  • Both Tim O'Brian and Joseph are in A war and they both have killed people. joseph does not speak about his guilt after killing a man while Tim openly expresses his fillings of sadness and guilt for the vietnamese man he killed

    Ryan Ross

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:40 AM  

  • i think it is very different how they veiw war joseph is eager to fight while timo brian isnt
    -msg

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:59 AM  

  • i think that joseph Plumb Martin was a tougher man at killing because he never talked about the guilt he felt after killing the other man. tim actually talked about how bad he felt after killing the man and remembered it his whole life. both of them were alike in the ways that they had freinds and they both killed people.

    duncan holmes.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:05 AM  

  • \I think that Tim feels more guilt than Joespeh does. However, they both do not like war and had some bad experiances.


    Daniel E.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:10 AM  

  • I think Tim O'Brien and Plumb Martin have different thoughts. One is is relieved that he killed someone and one fills guilty.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:15 AM  

  • I think that the first reading was a more violent version of the second. I also think that the first story was more of a story and the second was more of a memory.
    CM

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:24 AM  

  • I think that the first reading was more violent than the second reading and I also think that the second story was more of a memory in a way.


    - Salma S.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:27 AM  

  • They both had different ideas on war. Joseph is sympathetic about casualties but Tim B. was the exact opposite. They both are supported by their friends and connections and they both had a few bad experiences.

    Sam Stokes

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:21 PM  

  • Jordan Davis
    Answere to Nakrosius

    1. I learned that people from the great plains use porcupine quills, with the quills, they would dye them with natural dyes! That the plains Indians had a small wariety of weopons, also that they had many different tools.
    2. One similarity is that both the wampanoags and the great plains had a lot of different tools.
    3. Who came up with the travios?
    4. I love the way that period 3-4 products made the layout! Good job!

    By Blogger Unknown, at 9:06 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home